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2009年7月份,我给一个老朋友(Simon FT-MBA,2010春季班)为申请MBA而写的Essay提了几点比较关键的修改建议。后来,她成功拿到Simon的Offer。再后来,她建议我做留学DIY咨询方面的工作,并向我介绍了我的第一个客户。最终,我的第一个客户也成功拿到几个TOP16商学院的面试并顺利拿到Duke Fuqua商学院MBA的录取。 本人毕业于上海复旦大学管理学院国际企业管理系,属于商科科班出身并且做过管理工作、有领导经验的人士。

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留学参考:Assessing Your Odds Of Getting Into A Top B-School (20170618)(1/2)  

2017-06-20 02:53:46|  分类: DIY留学综合信息 |  标签: |举报 |字号 订阅

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留学参考:Assessing Your Odds Of Getting Into A Top B-School (20170618)(1/2)

 

 

BY: JOHN A. BYRNE & SANDY KREISBERG ON JUNE 18, 2017

 

 

Call him Mr. Silver. He didn’t go to an Ivy League School. He has worked for a Big Four accounting firm and a mid-market private equity shop. And he has a 710 GMAT. But this 24-year-old professional has gold ambitions: To get into Harvard, Chicago Booth or Northwestern Kellogg.

This young professional at Accenture describes herself as a “human capital consultant girl who wants to go to business school to gain some hard skills.” With a 720 GMAT and a 3.8 grade point average from a top liberal arts school, this 23-year-old has a long-term goal of becoming the chief HR officer at a Fortune 500 company.

This 28-year-old Indian-American male already has an enviable job: He works for a prominent Bay Area unicorn in market strategy and operations. With an impressive 760 GMAT and a 3.63 GPA at a top 40 private university, he hopes to get into business school to transition into a large tech company such as Google, Facebook or Amazon and lead a strategy and analytics team.

What these three MBA candidates and more share in common is the desire to get through the door of a highly selective MBA program at one of the world’s very best business schools. Do they have a chance?

Sanford “Sandy” Kreisberg, founder of MBA admissions consulting firm HBSGuru.com, is back to analyze these and a few other profiles of actual MBA applicants who have shared their vital statistics, work backgrounds, and career goals with Poets&Quants.

As usual, Kreisberg handicaps each potential applicant’s odds of getting into a top-ranked business school. If you include your own stats and characteristics in the comments, we’ll pick a few more and have Kreisberg assess your chances in a follow-up feature to be published shortly. (Please add your age and be clear on the sequence of your jobs in relaying work experience. Make sure you let us know your current job.)

 

Mr. Silver

  • 710 GMAT
  • 3.5 GPA
  • Undergraduate degree in accounting from a top ten public undergraduate business school in the U.S.
  • Completed CPA exam
  • Work experience includes two years at a Big Four firm in transaction advisory services; currently with a mid-market private equity firm
  • Fluent in three languages
  • Goal: To enter the venture capital specializing in Israeli tech businesses
  • 24-year-old male Israeli, Belgian and U.S. citizen

Odds of Success:

Harvard: 20% to 25%
Chicago: 30%
Northwestern: 30%

Sandy’s Analysis: You are pure silver. Everything about you rings silver, and this is what I mean by that. Silver means not gold.

If you didn’t go to an Ivy League school, but you went to a good school, that is silver. If you work for a middle-market firm and not an elite firm, that is silver. And if you have a 710 GMAT, that is silver. That is what I mean.

A lot of people who are silver look for alchemy. They want to turn themselves into gold. That’s hard to do, if not impossible.

Your Big Four experience for a white male is silver. I think transaction advisory services means number crunching in a cubicle. That is also known as silver. And you’re now at another silver job in a mid-market PE shop. Yet, your goal is to enter a gold field in venture capital.

Silver plus silver plus silver plus silver equals not gold. But all your target business schools are in the gold category. I don’t see Harvard from your background. It’s no dis on your story and your life. The problem is that every part of your MBA application is silver when many other applicants will be presenting gold. Someone with a 740 GMAT and a 3.8 with a CPA went to an Ivy school and instead of working at a Big Four could be working at McKinsey or Bain and then went to a gold PE firm. That describes a lot of people that Harvard Business will take and they won’t even take everyone of them. We don’t know how these people are viewed in the eyes of God, but in the eyes of Adcom those people are viewed as being ahead in the line.

How do you get into Kellogg and break out of the pack? Kellogg is open to looking at the whole story more than most business schools. So then the question becomes, “Are you the Kellogg type?” I don’t think so. You didn’t cite any extracurricular involvement. You want to demonstrate that you have been a successful team member and collaborator. It’s possible you left out examples of your teamwork and extras like working with puppies and lost kittens. There is no evidence here that you have value add for Kellogg.

Booth seems to be more focused on the GMAT so I think that’s a long-shot, too. I have two main pieces of advice for you: Expand your list of schools and look at INSEAD, Duke, NYU, Darden, Cornell, Michigan, UNC, Indiana, and USC. Given your silver application, these are all more realistic options for you at this point.

Here’s some tough love, Mr. Silver. Take the GMAT again. Years ago, no one would ever retake a 710. But a 730 for you could really make a difference. I don’t mean to support the arms race among schools on GMAT scores but improving your GMAT school is the easiest and most powerful thing you can do to improve your chances. It would increase your odds at your target schools.

 

Mr. American OEM

  • 700 GMAT
  • 3.65 GPA
  • Undergraduate degree in engineering from a top 25 engineering school
  • Work experience includes three years at a large American automotive manufacturer (big 3 OEM) in southeastern Michigan as a design and release engineer for a key component in an alternative energy-based propulsion system; two summer internships with a mid-sized management consulting firm
  • “Responsible for entire component development and production – think product manager for 1 component within a system. Experience has all been as a design and release engineer for a key component . . . think product manager for one component within a system”
  • Goal: To transition back into a management consulting role,or bring product experience to a venture capital firm
  • 25-year-old

Odds of Success:

MIT: 20%
Wharton: 20%
Harvard: 20% to 30%
Kellogg: 30% to 40%
Vanderbilt: 50%+
Michigan: 40% to 50%

Sandy’s Analysis: Your profile raises an interesting question: How many bonus points does Big 3 auto engineering experience provide for a 25-year-old, male (not stated, so guessing based on gender stereotypes, kill me!), 3.65 GPA from a top 25 engineering school, 700 GMAT.

Is Big 3 enough to, ahem, drive you into HBS? Or other targets?

My two cents and a warning: Big 3 auto experience, even in engineering, is still a real plus in business school applications. I mean B-schools were invented and had the first golden age when U.S. auto manufacturing was dominant and there is an aura about the space. Also, more recently, the auto industry has been an area of, as they, trendy “disruptions” of many kinds, including Japanese competition (remember that), solar and driverless cars, mergers, turn-arounds, bend overs, and fall flat on your face. Auto companies are also now becoming tech companies in many ways including how long it takes a new buyer to learn his own car.  And note, GM is fighting with Google over the future of the driverless car.

Finally, so  far, car manufacturing is not likely to be hollowed out by the internet, like magazine publishing and retail of many kinds. It will even survive  Uber (I don’t think there are many people who have given up their cars for Uber, but I could be wrong.) So yes, auto is very warm word to Adcoms with a glorious and buzzword rich past. I think you might be even more desired if you were on the business side of auto and not engineering. That would put you in touch with all the above macro issues and in theory make you a wonderful contributor to the class mix (Adcoms actually think this way!).

With that in mind, it is important that you present your engineering work as auto-produciton specific in the sense that it is being done inside a Big 3 automaker and hence touches on issues involving big teams, business and strategy overlays based on international regulations, severe competition, and solar, low energy demands, communicating with other teams all over the world, etc.

To that extent, this honest description of what this guy actually does, could be way more optimized:

“Work experience has all been as a design and release engineer for a key component in an alternative energy based propulsion system. Responsible for entire component development and production – think product manager for 1 component within a system.”

The fact that you are working on solar cars is great, although it gets lost in the paragraph. On the other hand, the fact that you have been trying to solve the same relatively small Rubic’s cube for your entire time there (experience has all been as a design and release engineer for a key component . . . think product manager for one component within a system”) is really limiting and it conjurs up, fairly or not, a good deal of the insane specialization and repetition that people hold about the auto manufacturing process (Charlie Chaplin on an assembly line).

You need to find more exciting, expansive and buzzword worthy ways of describing the same job — it’s probably just a matter of emphasis and slanting, all totally legitimate in this process. [Duh, you can describe your job with as much strategic optics as the schools themselves do in describing the program you are about to enter, not to mention the campus pictures on the school website].

Ok, let’s say you are able to do that? Would that make HBS doable?

Grrrrrr. That might depend a lot on who else is in the auto pool and how big that pool is. I don’t have a solid handle on this, but I got a queasy feeling that there are folks in that pool with 730+ GMATs and everything else about them will read sorta  the same to the Adcom (oh no, that never happens, everyone is so different!) so why not go with higher GMAT?

It’s like the military (outside of pilots and special forces, adcom has only an iffy idea of what you did in service and how to compare that to other vets, so why not revert to stats? Yeah, plenty of exceptions, don’t write in.)

I think if you took my initial advice about making his engineering work really buzzword driven, and exciting, it could give an adcom some comfort in winking at your low-ish (for white male!!!) GMAT. Of course, my real tough love is, GET A HIGHER GMAT SCORE.

A higher GMAT score could also help you at Wharton and MIT, schools that love Big Auto (even more than most). As to Kellogg, Vanderbilt, and Michigan, those should happen, although a higher GMAT could get you some scholarship dollars.

 

Ms. Human Resources

  • 720 GMAT (44V/46Q/5IR/6AWA)
  • 3.8 GPA
  • Undergraduate degree in Psychology and Managerial Studies from a top liberal arts school
  • Work experience includes two years as a strategy consultant at Accenture, specializing in the Human Capital area. Expect to apply for company sponsorship post application (Unavailable until after admissions decision is secured)
  • Extracurriculars include heavy involvement in charity organization that teaches prisoners business skills, undergraduate recruiting, women’s mentoring
  • Goal: To return to consulting with leadership skills and eventually leave for an HR leadership position in industry, with a long-term objective of becoming a chief human resources officer of a Fortune 500 company
  • “I’m a human capital consultant girl who wants to go to business school to gain some hard skills. My goal is to eventually transition into HR.”
  • 23-year-old mixed race (Caucasian + Indian) female
  • “Is my 5 IR score and low quant score enough of an issue to retake the GMAT?
  • “Will my age be a serious negative concern? I know I’m young!
  • “Will B-Schools ding me for wanting to go into HR instead of a more “prestigious” quant-type field?”

Odds of Success:

Texas: 50%+
Michigan: 40% to 50%
Duke: 40% to 50%
Northwestern: 20% to 30%
Yale: 20%

Sandy’s Analysis: Hmmmm, you got a 720 GMAT, which is ABOVE the average score for most of your target schools. To wit: McCombs (690), Ross (708), Fuqua (695), Kellogg (728) and Yale (725). And pretty close to the 728 and 725 at Kellogg and Yale, respectivelly.

So in terms of the beauty contest aspect of the GMAT, and that is usually most of it, you are OK-ish. Now this being the GMAT, and as we have seen, GMAT scores keep rising in importance. One could ask, ‘Hey, how much difference would a 730 or 740 make?’  That is hard to noodle out with any certainty, but I’d say that a 740 would help you get into Kellogg and Yale (where you are solid but in a large bucket of talented Big-4 consultants) and it could help you get scholarship offers at other schools, where I believe based on the totality of your story (and your 3.8 GPA) your chances are real solid.
As to the question you ask about the 46 Quant score, that will not raise any questions in the minds of most adcoms, even though it is probably near the 60th percentile for your test-taking cohort.

As Andrew Geller, a GMAT historian and tutor notes on P&Q, in a story analyzing how to get into HBS with a subpar Quant, ” . . . 45Q and above isn’t a problem. In the year 2000, this was the 82nd percentile. At this point, your quant skills are just fine.” I agree, especially if you took undergraduate courses in statistics, economics, etc.

You are an excellent student and exactly the type of diligent, sit still, eat the dogfood, and spit it back type that B -chools love. Your worry is more about the 720 than the 46Q.

As to the IR 5 score, my view is that B-schools don’t really care about IR scores. They are not reported to U.S. News, and there is, not to my knowledge, any serious studies correlating IR scores to first-year B-school performance.

You asked if your age (23) would be a serious negative concern. You will be 24-25 at matriculation with three years of work experience, I’m calling that the low side of normal, but not a negative. The trick is not to sound young in your application and interview. In your post, you described yourself as, “a human capital consultant girl who wants to go to business school to gain some hard skills.”

OK, I’ll cut you some slack for getting into the spirit of a free-wheeling, un-PC (a little) comment board, and I assume you will be able to get your game face on for the real deal. So, don’t describe yourself as a “girl.”  Further, do not say you are going to business school to “to gain some hard skills.” That is insulting to the schools who view themselves as teaching hard skills but oh-so-much more, including leadership, strategy, innovation, blah, blah, blah.

Also, in your case, saying you want to learn hard skills is supporting your own fear that your GMAT Quant raw score was low and you need to learn hard skills. Your outlook should be that your hard skills are fine. You got an A in calculus, stats, econ, and you are attending B-school to learn leadership.

You also said in your posting: “Thank you for your column! It always sounds like good advice from my snarkiest friend.”

Hahaha, thanks, I hope I am not disappointing.

You also ask if B-schools will ding you for wanting to go into HR instead of a more “prestigious” quant-type field? No. That is actually a strength of your story. You are a HR type (smart, well behaved, liberal arts type with good enough hard skills) who has already done work like that at Accenture so it just all fits.

Applicants with HR goals and backgrounds is a real bucket at your target schools, and they no doubt have profs who teach it and consider it just as prestigious as Derivative Trading With Bitcoins and other esoteric and even basic courses.  Further, the fact that you are thinking about getting sponsorship from Accenture is another plus!!! Good doobies like you often GET that sponsorship and schools love that because they do not have to worry about you being employed after two years.

Bottom line: There is lots to like here, and it all fits.  I think your chances at all your targets, except Kellogg and Yale, are real solid. You got the stats, you got a solid job, you may return to Accenture, all good. You ARE a Kellogg type–joiner, bon élève, optimist-worrier, “heavily involved in charity organization that teaches prisoners business skills.” (Haha, Kellogg is a charity organization heavily involved in teaching future prisoners business skills), etc. and they may let that outweigh your, ahem, “lower” GMAT.  Just remember, put on your game face, even for them.

I some how am not getting a Yale vibe off of this. They may be a school that holds your age and vibe against you. At schools which do run older, e.g. Fuqua, they may, on the other hand, welcome you to bring down the average.

 

 

以上内容摘自:

http://poetsandquants.com/2017/06/18/assessing-your-odds-of-getting-into-a-top-business-school/ 

 

 

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